PTS Flowbench Forum

I am quite drunk and happy after the Oregon Rose Bowl win, so the above post may have been made with a few mistakes. Please crush the happy drunk gently... after all we Oregonians just won our first Rose Bowl in 95 years!

65mustang393 wrote:I am quite drunk and happy after the Oregon Rose Bowl win, so the above post may have been made with a few mistakes. Please crush the happy drunk gently... after all we Oregonians just won our first Rose Bowl in 95 years!

No crushing required, feedback is welcome!

We all have some strong opinions on this subject but it does need to be addressed and discussed so we can educate everyone.

It's the same for the AFR, TEA, and other heads on my SF machines. They flow close to what the advertised numbers are... but are no where close to what some of the home made benches say, so how can you compare?

Here is where I have a problem with your thinking.

You go back and look on YB, Team Chevelle, Steve's Nova Site, and Speedtalk where I went round and round with Tony Mamo because his advertised numbers were 15cfm lower on my "more accurate" DIY bench. However, maybe he finally fixed his advertising because I was right!

Now TEA. I can't get within 20 cfm on their exhaust numbers!

Another thing, being drunk isn't an excuse.

I have made more of an attempt to make my DIY bench more accurate that taking some companies word for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I care more about setting records, making proper port designs, or winning races, than debating about a flow bench.

Chad Speier wrote: Another thing, being drunk isn't an excuse.

I have made more of an attempt to make my DIY bench more accurate that taking some companies word for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen!

Everytime some one says my bench isn't viable, high, blah blah blah, I feel they are insulting my intelligence! I think they think we just throw wood together and slap a plate on it or something stupid like that. I'm anal! I probably could answer more questions than Superflow!

Just because my bench doesn't match another SF bench doesn't mean it's wrong! It means you should find out why! You should make it your business to find the answer. Then when you find that answer, have an open mind an accept it. I did just that and I'M confident when I tell you my DIY is accurate and my numbers are real.

There isn't a friend I have that ports heads that hasn't talked about building their own bench! Most are SF users. Why is that?

65mustang393 wrote:320+ cfm from a 195cc SBF Twisted Wedge head??? Really??? You have a company (TEA) dedicated to making the TFS TW head better and the best they can get is 315 cfm at 206 cc and 120 cfm/sq inch of area but someone can take a box stock TW head and make it move 128 cfm/sq inch of area???

Yep, that would be me! I flowed these heads when my bench was first built using the Dwyer Model 246 incline and Dwyer 36" vertical manometers. I thought it was way high but I had calibrated it with a sharp edged orifice that was docuemented at said CFM.

The heads are back in the shop and my bench is set up with the PTSDM and calibrated using Bruce's orifice plates. I flowed one of those same heads tonight; 288 cfm @ .650", falls off 10 cfm @ .700". Man, I was way off.

Gerald and Chad I was wrong with the flow numbers I had posted on the other forum. Ya'll should have called me out!

There is another set at the shop that flowed 296 @ .800" on my bench this past Saturday. I'm going to look these over real good and try to learn from them.

Ray

Chad Speier wrote:Everytime some one says my bench isn't viable, high, blah blah blah, I feel they are insulting my intelligence! I think they think we just throw wood together and slap a plate on it or something stupid like that. I'm anal! I probably could answer more questions than Superflow!

[SF rant on]

I've given this some thought, if you really think about it a SF is nothing more than home-built unit that met a production shop for mass production and is wrapped in Formica to make it look pretty. If you ever have a chance to gander at pics of the inside of a SF you might be surprise at the "quality" of those builds versus the quality of the home-built flowbenches now being constructed and used for 1/3 the price.

I'd be pissed also if I spent that kind of money and a home-built flowbench was of better quality.

SF "might have sold" 5000 flowbenches but I bet I have'em beat on orifice plates sold and used for calibrating all styles of flowbenches. I would also venture to say they are not moving volumes of flowbenches anymore!

[/SF rant off]

A pig with lipstick is still just an over-priced pig . . . not everyone likes over-priced pig anymore. Lots of flavors other than pork on the menu now.

Chad Speier wrote:Everytime some one says my bench isn't viable, high, blah blah blah, I feel they are insulting my intelligence! I think they think we just throw wood together and slap a plate on it or something stupid like that. I'm anal! I probably could answer more questions than Superflow!

Just because my bench doesn't match another SF bench doesn't mean it's wrong! It means you should find out why! You should make it your business to find the answer. Then when you find that answer, have an open mind an accept it. I did just that and I'M confident when I tell you my DIY is accurate and my numbers are real.

There isn't a friend I have that ports heads that hasn't talked about building their own bench! Most are SF users. Why is that?

Chad, you bring up great points that are IMO valid. Here are my points of view.

I am not your adversary or competitor. I do this for fun, but I notice when things don't make sense. When I see numbers that I think are high by what I feel are 20-30 cfm, I question why. Maybe the head is that much better, maybe not.

Each bench style (and to a lesser degree) each bench is calibrated a little differently, so I'm more inclined to see what the gains were instead of the numbers. Inevitably though, when I look around at different heads and take a quick glance at their flow I'm subconsciously comparing. Don't mean to, but it happens. I figure it's the same for most people.

I think it is more damaging to a seller's reputation to over-sell their product than under-sell. I'm not talking 2% or even 3% because that's understandable but if a head doesn't repeat reasonably close on the "industry standard" then like it or not that head/seller is going to take a beating in the mind of the buyer. I have stated many times that I don't necessarily say their numbers are right, but if every SF bench is calibrated higher then all that does is move the baseline up.

Like I said, I was a consumer before I started to buy my equpment but once I had it and started flowing different heads I quickly figured out which company's flow numbers I felt like I could "trust" and which ones I should not put as much credence into.

I would devote more time to the subject of calibration but in all honesty, I have other more pressing matters in my life. I know that my bench reads with SF benches and so any work I sell will at least repeat those SF benches and probably read higher on other style benches (like the JKM I used to own). Knowing that puts my mind at ease. The customer will see that he is getting what he paid for (if he bothers to flow it somewhere else) so their perception of me is that I'm honest.

I have no problem with DIY benches, but I would try to calibrate mine so it reads in-line with a SF. Screwed up thinking? Maybe, but I think it would save a lot of head/heartache.

Brucepts wrote:

Chad Speier wrote:Everytime some one says my bench isn't viable, high, blah blah blah, I feel they are insulting my intelligence! I think they think we just throw wood together and slap a plate on it or something stupid like that. I'm anal! I probably could answer more questions than Superflow!

[SF rant on]

I've given this some thought, if you really think about it a SF is nothing more than home-built unit that met a production shop for mass production and is wrapped in Formica to make it look pretty. If you ever have a chance to gander at pics of the inside of a SF you might be surprise at the "quality" of those builds versus the quality of the home-built flowbenches now being constructed and used for 1/3 the price.

I'd be pissed also if I spent that kind of money and a home-built flowbench was of better quality.

SF "might have sold" 5000 flowbenches but I bet I have'em beat on orifice plates sold and used for calibrating all styles of flowbenches. I would also venture to say they are not moving volumes of flowbenches anymore!

[/SF rant off]

A pig with lipstick is still just an over-priced pig . . . not everyone likes over-priced pig anymore. Lots of flavors other than pork on the menu now.

Bruce, I agree with you 100% on being overpriced (when new) and that they are probably not selling as many as they used to.

I paid $3000 for my SF300 and $4000 for my SF600 with Flowcom. Probably still too much but much better than the ridiculous new prices.

You gave people a real alternative.

jfholm wrote:

Chad Speier wrote: Another thing, being drunk isn't an excuse.

I have made more of an attempt to make my DIY bench more accurate that taking some companies word for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen!

Yeah, sorry about my long rambling post in a happy/drunken state. I was enjoying a good day of college football and started typing away.

Don't worry it'll be another 95 years until Oregon wins a Rose Bowl again, so I shouldn't be drunk posting anytime soon