PTS Flowbench Forum

Dumpster motors??? I'd never stoop that low I just put a wanted add in the general store and I was amazed how many people contacted me to come by and pick up old vac cleaners. That way I made sure they worked first. I've got a few ideas for this bench

"The article from Vizard is a ripoff from the book Practical Gas Flow by Dalton."


if this is true, does it also make all that was written about "orifice" benches a "ripoff" of a superflow or a mercdog or a msd bench or whatever? does it make a dm a ripoff of a flowquick? I personally don't think so. Dalton's book is good, but seriously?

Oh and please do not harp on the motor thing as there are many benches on this form with dumpster motors, if you are to proud to dive I will sell you some new ones real cheep. I think you could flow close to 175 cfm at 28” and 250CFM at 10” using a 6” Delta P with 2 average motors.

For what it is worth Bruce and I have been passing plan ideas back and forth about what we call the cube it will be a bench top two motor reversible flow bench designed to run on a 6” DP PTS DM for the Karter’s and small port heads.

Rick

Yup 2 dumpster motors and to quality store ones.

I should have went with a 6" dp instead of the 12" and i could have flowed my heads at 28" instead of having to figure up from .300 lift, and i still could!.........
But i think, i will, build a full side PTS 6-8 motor bench before i do that.

If i would have use the material that i had on hand(two free large desk/tables made of mdf/laminated) and make a larger settling chamber/ upper chamber,............. a accurite flow bench would have come much easier.

I think the "cube" idea, is a grate one!

BigBro74 wrote:"The article from Vizard is a ripoff from the book Practical Gas Flow by Dalton."


if this is true, does it also make all that was written about "orifice" benches a "ripoff" of a superflow or a mercdog or a msd bench or whatever? does it make a dm a ripoff of a flowquick? I personally don't think so. Dalton's book is good, but seriously?

I think it has now been established that Vizard was using this type of bench well before Dalton ever published his book.

I think it has now been established that Vizard was using this type of bench well before Dalton ever published his book.

Please, Provide the publication and drawings as in this early book..... else words are just words. I listed my publication and i will scan and post the drawings if need be.

Build the bench make it work and prove your point the banter is useless so far none of us have seen one of these prove it can flow accurate CFM.

Please stop the BS and prove yourself.


Rick

1960FL wrote:
Please stop the BS and prove yourself.

Yup.
I want you to show us how your Mom's (or a dumpster) vacuum cleaner motor provides a reliable and absolutely repeatable standard for air flow measurement and testing.

Maybe NASA can adopt "Mrs Vizards vacuum cleaner" as a National and international laboratory standard of flow calibration.

Who give a flying F#*$ who came up with this first!
It could have been my grate Grampapa for all i care!

In the past 6 pages there has been a lot of grate info layed out. Even a grate parts list to get you, any of you, started.......a better one then Dalton or Visard!

Do you thing the first flow bench built here, before the PTS forum was even establish, was totally accurate? I have know idea! But i bet it when thru ton's of improvments to get to were it is today!!!!!!!

For those of you with such Passion for this Floating Depression, YOU HAVE TO BUILD IT BEFORE YOU CAN SEE HOW TO IMPROVE IT.

and here's a quote from someone,........ That my late Father told me.

A SUCCESSFUL MAN IS A MAN, THAT GETS UP ONE MORE TIME, THEN HE IS KNOCKED DOWN!
And, I’m talking about the "floating flow bench" not the Dalten/Visard thing.

Flash is on the same line of thinking as I am- who cares who thought of it and if you like that person or not.

Floating depression is an idea that is intrinsically different in nature than a standard dp bench. does it present problems? you bet! has that stopped people from doing things in the past that they thought presented problems (reference:The thick skulled such as myself)? not a chance. Wilbur and Orvilles dad probably told them they were Dumba$$e$.
The fixed depression orifice bench is an excellent tool. it has giving racing its best cylinder heads for decades. It is probable that it will almost always be an order of magnitude more precise. It probably, if care is taken, would not cost much more or less to build, just depends on what you want. does it fit all criteria? nothing ever does.

In my own case, my electric service in may teeney weeney garage won't power more than 2 motors and i cant afford to amend that right now. I want to test at higher than a probable 10", and this is one way of doing that. if one could power 6 or 8 motors then see the last paragraph. is that it?, no.

There is a question of test methodology. here is a big one i cant get over completely. in the "why test at 28"" larry m goes into reasons why it is sometimes benifical to test at higher dp's. he is an authority in this stuff for sure. 2 things, and these are questions. when one uses readings at 40" (or whatever) how does he equate this to another body of work? does he convert or remeasure at 28? and if so what does it tell you as it is an apples to oranges comparo. also where in the engines cycle does the depression change to what? this is the one DV was getting at. he does have different options for data than most of us.

I feel that one initial reaction to floating depression by those that already use a standard pressure drop bench is created just by the name. On a standard or fixed depression bench the depression being fixed is is by and large one of the ways to obtain measurements, accurate measurements in the first place. The term "floating" used with "depression" is like telling someone to commit blasphemy to there religion (or worse) if they use a fixed depression.
On the other hand, the Floating depression is the basis on which the floating dp bench operates. if the dp did not changed than you could not make any comparison or measure any thing. and this does imply that it measures. if a guy has a 25' tape measure and measures 1' for another guy, can the second guy measure 25'? i would say yes, but this is open to speculation.

But this is like building a eng on a desk top dyno,......Grate tool! You can learn a lot.
But you won't know all the flaw's of the program until you get your hands dirty and Build It.

Start the build, Then ask question.
This forum won't stear you wrong.

If you think about it,.... if its build right, You can us or "test" with it either way! aka floating or DP style.

I am still waiting for the "Why use a floating DP bench" vs. a standard orifice bench and also "names of well know head porters who are using a floating DP bench?

Thanks,
John