Tractorsport Flowbench Forum Archive

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:00 am**

For some reason I could not reply at all in the "PTS Flowbench" part of the forum,so here goes...

Bruce,

Is there any way to build a bench like yours (according to the plans,which I do not have and I have no idea if I can use it ->) with an external motor box? I have been thinking and testing blowers,multiple cheapo vacuum cleaner motors and so on for a while now and come to the conclusion (to my dismay) that I don't have the electricity to support 10hp+ for any extended period of time

... and the reason for wanting an external motor box is that my existing motors are 3-stage bypass fan-cooled ones (read:expensive. $400,each) which really need external,non-heated air to cool them...

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:47 am**

Couldn't reply in that area cause it's closed to replys, and the other area is password protected for those who purchased a set of the plans

Yes you can do what you would like to do with my set of plans, the plans can be used as guidance on flowbench theory and modified to suit or built as designed. I'd prefer not to discuss the specifics of the inside of this bench design on the open forum. Although, there is nothing "secret" and everything inside the PTS plans bench can be found here on the forum.

Consider the purchase of a set of plans a "donation" to the forum and it's saves you a few (alot of) hours of searching for the info and trying to figure it all out.

If someone would have a specific requirement I can also tailor the plans to suit their needs. It's not hard at all to redraw and modify the existing plans.

I'll say this much, the motor area has a removable side panel so motors can be added as required. Motors larger than 5.25" base diameter might be to tall for the blower area though? Drill all 8 holes in the motor panel and block off the ones not needed as your capacity increases remove the block-offs and just bolt in more motors and wire them up. I'm going to be doing something similar with the one I'm building so I can test various blowers for capacity.

I'll send you a PM and we can chat about it . . .

Edited By bruce on 1196002172

Posted: **Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:56 pm**

I received my set of plans I purchased from Bruce today and they are great and very professional. I have one thought, and this may prove the old addage "sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" so just bare with me. When I build my bench I am going to use an inclined manometer using water to measure the differential pressure across the orifice. When I change flow direction from intake to exhaust, won't I also have to change position of the tubes on the inclined manometer where they hook to the pressure taps so it will measure flow in the other direction? If I use a "U" tube manometer for the static flow pressure that will not matter. My way of thinking is I need to change the hook up of the inclined manometer when I change flow. Is that correct?

Posted: **Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:21 am**

Yes this is correct. This option is not discussed in detail in the plans as one flow computer vendor's product does not require swapping. As you can see in the plans all connections are easily assessable through the front doors on the bench.

So everyone who reads this post knows, the plans do not discuss water gage installation. I'm sure as plans get out there will be some lengthy discussion on adding them though.

I'd prefer this discussion is not held in an open forum area though and will move any such discussion to the closed plans area in the future. A lot of time and effort has gone into the plans and I hope people respect this effort on my part and all those who contributed to this effort in support of this forum (the price of the plans is a small price to pay to help support the valuable info found here). Those who take the time to purchase the plans will have access to that area.

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:18 pm**

This does not relate to Bruce's Plans but to ANY Flow BENCH where
you want to use an inclined water manometer.

If you go to the Grainger Catalog and look for Pnuematic Manual "Three Port" Switches you can simply use two switches and by flipping the two switch positions around can read Intake Flow or Exhaust Flow correctly on your inclined manometer.

Parts you Need:

* Two Grainger "Three Port" Switches

* Two "Three Way" Plastic "Tees" that match the Tubing connections
on the Inclined Manometer.

* A length of Clear Vacuum Hose for connecting up the parts.

Labeling the Parts:

Step 1) We will label the hose connection from the Upper Plenum "A"

Step 2) We will label the hose connection from the Lower Plenum "B"

Step 3) We will label the Hose connection from the Well of the Inclined Manometer "C"

Step 4) We will label the Hose connection from the Top of the Inclined Manometer "D"

Step 5) Label the three connections on the 1st Plastic "Tee": #1, #2, #3

Step 6) Label the three connections on the 2nd Plastic "Tee": #4, #5, #6

Step 7) Label the three ports on the 1st Grainger "Switch": #7, #8, #9

Step

Label the three ports on the 2nd Grainger "Switch": #10, #11, #12

(Note: Port #8 and Port #11 MUST be the CENTER ports on the Grainger
Switches)

Hooking up the Connections:

Step 9) Hook a line between "A" and "#8"

Step 10) Hook a line between "B" and "#11"

Step 11) Hook a line between "C" and "#2"

Step 12) Hook a line between "D" and "#4"

Step 13) Hook a line between "1" and "#7"

Step 14) Hook a line between "3" and "#10"

Step 15) Hook a line between "5" and "#12"

Step 16) Hook a line between "6" and "#9"

You should be done with the connections to where you can do a test
run to determine the location of the "Toggles" on the switches

I set up mine where to do Intake readings both "Toggles" were "UP"
I used some "stick on" Letters (I & E) to label the "Toggles" position
for correct flow direction of the Manometer for both Intake & Exhaust flow.

A schematic would be better but until I can work with Ed "86rocco"
to post one this will have to do. Buy your parts while I am making that happen.

Tom V.

ps The Grainger switches are about $20 USD but well worth it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:49 pm**

Tom, I can always add a schematic to the plans.

The plans are easy to update and changes/updates are then sent to those who have already purchased them via email attachments.

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:08 pm**

Bruce, If you still have my Ford e-mail address send me a note and I will respond tomorrow with a Excel spreadsheet drawing for your plans.

Tom V.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:34 am**

Thomas,
Is this the valve part number you are thinking of? 3NB16

John

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:03 am**

Thomas,thanks so much for that!

I didn't know such switches even existed.. That solved the last riddle I had on how to make my new bench bi-directional!

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:36 pm**

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:41 pm**

[color=#000000]Okay, this isn't exactly a schematic but here were go. a 4 way, 5 ported valve that should work great. The price is about the same as the Grainger 3-way valve but you only need one and hooking it up is CONSIDERABLY simpler than Tom's setup requiring only one tee. BTW, I wasn't able to find a 4 ported, 4 way valve but, that would be even better with no tees required.

Anyways, internally, it looks some thing like this. Port A would get connected to the pickup point in one of the plenums, Port B to one in the other plenum, one end of the inclined manometer gets connected to Port P and the two remaining ports, Ex

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:13 pm**

Great find Rocco.

Yes, commercial air valves and switches in a huge range of configurations can be obtained from the normal pneumatic industrial suppliers to industry, and that is a very nice neat way to go about it.

Another far cheaper way is to grab a whole bunch of 12v automotive solenoid valves as used in engine air and vacuum lines of many modern low emission vehicles. These can be hooked up in suitable ways and all controlled together with a single electrical switch. Not so neat perhaps, but entirely practical.

Some of these solenoids are normally closed (un-energised), others normally open, and some select two alternative flow paths. Others can have internal ball valves and needle valves to control flow. plenty of variety available, but as they are usually free, there is plenty of scope for experimentation.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:43 pm**

Here's the exact valve I've got for my bench, it operates just like the diagram in my previous post. Regular price about $35.00, I picked it up locally, on sale, for I think under $20.00. From time to time, they have an electrically operated 3 position , 5 port, 4 way on sale too, I'm tempted to buy one but I think I'll resist.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:11 pm**

Rocco, your 5 way vale looks like the "hot ticket" if you can find them.

If you send me the e-mail, I will still make up the schematic for those that want to go with two "three way" valves.

Tonys comment about the three nipple electric "emissions" solenoids is another alternative too.

My schematic would work for those too.

Tom V.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:32 pm**

Tom, if you click on the picture of the valve in my earlier post, it takes you to Clippard's online store, you can order from there, it costs $24.12 + taxes and shipping.

And for those that don't like ordering stuff online, finding a valve locally should be pretty easy. Valves like those are fairly common, they're used to control double acting pneumatic cylinders, any good sized city will have a place that sells hydrualic and pneumatic components to industry so check your local yellowpages.

Tractorsport Flowbench Forum Archive

Thoughts on the PTS plans - External motors?