Blower Motor Controllers - looking for a 220 VAC controller

[ccm399]

Hi all,

I think this is the correct place to start this thread. I searched for "motor controls", "variable motor control" and "220 VAC motor control" and could not find much on the subject. I hope I am not somehow making a duplicate thread.

Ok, on to the question at hand. I see some of you are using the HF router controls to control one or two motors for depression control. Great idea but the problem I am having is I am using 220 VAC motors not 110 VAC so I seem to be a bit stuck.

I did find on another thread but I would have to purchase them [url=http://cgi.ebay.de/NEU-M028N-LEISTUNGSREGLER-DIMMER-4000-VA-Watt-M028-N_W0QQitemZ150317218802QQcmdZViewItemQQ
ptZBauteile?hash=item150317218802&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318]HERE[/url] but I cannot read the page (I may use google translate later). Anyway, I am looking for input on my problem.

Thanks in advance!

Chris Music

[bruce]

Chris, Posted this in the other thread earlier but here it is again in this post:



This is the one I'm using on my PTS Plans bench build to control 2 blowers on one 220v line



Edited By bruce on 1234722066

[ccm399]

Thanks Bruce.

Not sure how I missed that one. Thanks for taking the time to re-post.

Chris

[MrHijet]

As I can read the german sellers text. They are selling a "new version" of the M028 Control, which is now working up to 4000 watts . The old one works up to 2600 watts, but there are some (serious) shops who sell them for aproximate 12 Euro, so they are pretty cheap.

If you still want to buy some of them, I would try to contact the company Reichelt in Germany. They will ship internationally, but you have to ask them of the shipping costs.

As you can see, they are pretty cheap:


They are available on the phone at +49.4422-955333 (Up to 20:00 CET, so no 24 hours order line)

Cheers,

Daniel

PS: Sometimes I have the feeling it would make sense to send bruce a 20 piece pack of Kemo-speed-controllers and he can do the distribution

[bruce]

[ccm399]

[ccm399]

Well after looking on the Grainger website I believe I can get three motors on one 4000 Watt controller.

The motors pull 5.1 Amps and 220 volts so that would be 1122 Watts times three motors would be 3366. So with a 4000 Watt rating I should be good. Plus there is plenty of airflow in the box to cool the controllers

Chris

[bruce]

Why would you need to control 3 motors?

[ccm399]

[ccm399]

Also, if I have control over all the motors I do not have to make any baffles to prevent back flow though the motors that are not spinning.

Chris

[Tony]

Bruce, I can think of a couple of reasons.

Firstly, controlling all of the motors, means they all run together at much reduced speed, creating a LOT less noise, heat, and wear and tear on the motors. They will last many times longer and be much more reliable at reduced speed.

If anyone is planning to later on have automatic test pressure control, then a moments thought will tell you you will need to control all of the motors (in some way).
Flow must be able to go from zero, to absolutely flat out, under full automatic control to hold a constant unvarying test pressure.

While it would certainly be possible for software to switch some motors and speed control others, it becomes a lot more complicated. It will be far simpler to speed control all motors together, even if that is done with multiple individual smaller power control modules.

We can discuss this in more detail later on, when work on the Forum Digital Manometer has levelled off a bit.

I have some ideas about a very simple, but very high powered automatic test pressure controller, but it needs a lot of further discussion to nail down the exact requirements.

One step at a time Bruce <grin>.

[ccm399]

I have been looking into building my own control for all 12 motors but I am just not up to speed on the subject yet. I am learning tough. Anyway, one of our programmers at work is an electrical engineer so I am going to bounce a couple ideas off him. I would like to be able to just put a depression number in the PC and have the control keep it there for me. I used to me able to do a complete flow test from .050 - .700 in no time flat! The Audie stuff was WAYYY sweet!!!!

I am not sure how much I can add to the discussion but I would be up to helping out anyway I could.

Chris

[Tony]

A couple of points to ponder.

It is very bad practice to use the same instrument to both measure something and to control it.
Suppose your pressure transducer goes nuts and says there is 28 inches of depression, but it is really only 26.5 inches. Your digital display still says 28.000 but it could really be anything.

Now suppose on the other hand, you use a completely independent pressure controller that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the main data acquisition system.

If the data acquisition display says the test pressure is 28.0 inches, and it STAYS at exactly 28.0 inches, you know two things. Both your pressure control system AND your data acquisition system are both rock solid.

This is a basic golden rule of any industrial control and monitoring system, totally independent measurement. That rules out tacking some pressure control software onto the man DAQ system. I sounds attractive, but it is not a good solution.

The second point is, why would you want to use a range of different test pressures to measure things? Why not have a simple adjustment on the pressure controller that you very carefully set up once, and then leave alone.

In other words the test pressure controller does not need to be a 3GHZ Pentium, with a keyboard and wide screen monitor, just a small plastic box with a single screwdriver adjustment to set and lock the test pressure is all that is required.

A very simple completely independent analogue test pressure controller, with it's own pressure transducer, is going to be a lot simpler, lower cost, and potentially a lot more reliable, and probably going to have better dynamic performance anyway.

At least, that is the direction my own thoughts are headed right now.

[ccm399]

I run test at many different pressure on a normal basis.

For instance, when testing a carb I don't pull it at 28" I use 20.5 for 4 BBL (to be bale to compare numbers). I also flow heads at many different pressures nto always/just 28". The current trend in Pro Stock is flowing the heads at higher (sometimes MUCH higher) test pressures. I have seen some go as high as 65" (limit of the bench). The idea is if the head starts to go turbulent at the higher test pressures then more then likely it will go turbulent (an hurt power in the process) on the actual running engine.

As far as the Audie stuff goes I always kept my analog manometers to double check the controls and readings. It was always spot on but since the analog stuff was still hooked up I thought it made for a good control measurement. Your thought process is very refreshing though!

[ccm399]

I was thinking speed control modules controlled by controller would be a good start. From there I would think the Digital Manaometer could provide the PC the signal for the test depression and the PC (with the needed code) could run the M150.

I realize this goes against the first thought of keeping the systems independent but it's a start.

Come to think if it the Audie was two separate systems. The depression control had an input for the test depression which it relayed to the DAQ unit.

Chris