Tractorsport Flowbench Forum Archive

Posted: **Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:48 pm**

Now that my bench is somewhat complete, I been testing a little to see what is going on in the chamber and cylinder. So far, again, moving a tube with fuel around the entrance of the port changes the exit out of the valve. So far, I can't see the effect of turbulence in the port has on the liquid anywhere from disperssal to the cylinder. I bolted up an intake to check flow and then got some fluid to enter the tract to find it favored another place.

So far. 18"
Bottom of runner, no intake, 270 degree off valve away from ssr, liquid then converges back to under the ssr in cylinder.

Middle, same, but starts to favor back side of wall opposite ssr in cylinder.

Upper, Now favoring open area opposite of wall closest to the valve and opposit ssr. Less convergence to center of cylinder under ssr

Intake on, Now favors the ssr and falls direstly below valve. I now have to definitely make the wedge. Seems maybe when the intake is angled the fluid follows the floor. And scince the turbulence without the intake is calmed now with it on ( still has some though) the fluid is following over the ssr. But there is loads of it and the rest of the chamber/cylinder has so much less than without intake.

With the other tests there is water hanging and dripping off the valve at the wall (shrouded) side. Droplets like to also hang out under the valves and move around like roaches. The seat is 45 degrees and i'm not sure of the backcuts. This head was done by another and will be used for testing and to be eventually used in my car. Now I have to fix my antique valve refacer and pick up a seat grinding kit. Im a cheapo though! By the way, the head is a #62 Pontiac D-port.

As I find more out and adapt the bench to lay the head at 45 degrees, I'll keep posting here on it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:28 pm**

To get an idea, I started to mock up the head adapter. It's probably going to sit sideways and have the ability to be broken down back to normal if need be. Going to start making the supports and see what I come up with. It will allow for decent viewing of the chamber and cylinder. I may need a step stool though.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:11 pm**

Here it is finished. Now I need more power . One thing at lower depressions while testing, (16") is that some liquid drops toward the other runners. It then stays there. Here is a pic of the system.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:57 pm**

nice work! Good solution to the problem.

John

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:53 am**

Yes, neat design. Are you blocking off the ports on the open runners? They look open from the picture. And what about the specific gravity of the test fluid. Does that become a factor? Does jet changing show a wet flow exist difference in the cylinder?

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:33 pm**

Thanks guys. So far I only tested once last night when I finished.

I have to build a stack or some kind of restriction above the carb to draw the fuel from the carb until I bump up the depression. There is not enough to pull from the carb at 16 to 18 " without the restriction there.

The ports are blocked off. At this low depression, water is getting into the blocked ports and sitting there. Once you shut down the machine, water has to be drained from the remaining 7. If you were to run the machine, then unblock one port at a time where the remaining water is, the water sticks to the floor at the edge of the runner and stretch toward the plenum/ port with vaccuum. Yet it still stays in that one spot. Even though there are pulses throughout the system in a running engine, I wonder if there is any of this "pooling" still going on.

So far I don't see any difference in pattern in the chamber when you mash the throttle open. What I mean is the pattern of the "spray" in response to a sudden opening. I have to get the dye and black light to try to "see" more.

Water pattern so far that I saw favored the floor and clinged to the cylinder under the ssr even though at that angle, the fluid is basically "upsidedown" in the cylinder.

200cfm, As for the Specific gravity numbers to test and other things that may come up, I don't know much about that. If anyone can give me a little heads up or tell me what you want tested, I would appreciate it. I won't play with jetting yet until I get more power from the bench to create a better signal for the carb to work from. As for the specific gravity thing, if there is a way to "change" any of that with using other types or mixes of non flamible fluids, I'm all ears.

One thing I did notice but want to test again, is that when fluid is run through the system under it's own power and not by pressure (spraying/etc) there doesnt seem to be any flow loss. you can put a string in and watch the guages move. The fluid didn't do that.

Even at the lower depressions, I am going to create a log of every little detail. Test and retest. Also any tests that others would like to see tried. Then as more power is added, test again and cross reference the results. I wonder if the Flosoft stuff can have something added to map fluid flow or something in the future. Maybe not necessary. But just throw stuff at me and we will go from there.
Chris.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:50 pm**

What you may want to try with your lower depression is to increase the size of your jets dramatically. There are 2 ways to get fluid flow to increase through an orifice. Increase pressure, and the flow will increase up to the point of saturation where the orifice just cannot flow any more. Or increase the size of the orifice. Since in this case you are pressure limited you can increase the size of the jet to get more flow. Have you ever taken a carb off a small block and put it on a big block and had to lean it out? I have and for the same principle. We ended up having more air go through the venturi causing a bigger depression which made the amospheric pressure on the fuel bowl greater in difference than before so it pushed more fuel through. We had a carb that was really too big for the small block so we had to jet it up to pull more fuel and that caused it to be to fat on the big block.

John

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:41 am**

Thanks John, but I do understand all that. I meant more about specific gravity and the differences other fluids have with fuel in respect to that. Or BSFC and how it is measured, can it be used on a bench like this, and how we can transfer the data to the bench. I do appreciate the imput. And I'm sure the info will be used by others here. This carb is jetted somewhere in the mid to upper 80's if I remember correct. I might as well just take them out. I will also try to go to the next "range" and see if it has any effect.

I used my tube without the intake to watch some more in the chamber but it is hard to see. The tube/cylinder has so much activity under the ssr that is blurs the sight to the chamber. There is also a vortex of fuel right below the exhaust valve a little below the chamber. I mixed in some black light paint into the water to try to watch with only the light and it is still hard. Maybe more liquid into the runner next time. I took some pics of the chamber and in the runner at the ssr. Some are better than others but still not as good as looking through your own eyes.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:42 am**

another

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:44 am**

You can see a little up into the runner at the ssr

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:45 am**

Last one. I tried to get up into the ssr but pic is still dark

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:56 am**

I'm going to try to slightly reshape some areas where it is the brightest. I would really like to mess with the valve job a little first, but I don't have the tools right now. I'm glad I learned when I had the chance to work with stones. Now I just have to get my hands on them. Plus I want to mess with the margin and valve backcuts to get rid of the liquid that is holding on to the edge of the valve. I will also try sinking the exhaust valve a little. I have an old B&D valve refacer that someone modified for a different use. I have to shorten the shaft because the guy who had it lengthened it 10 inches. More and more projects.:p

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:29 pm**

I made a topic in the avanced section of Speedtalk discussing testing procedures and what does and doesnt work. I referred all back to here in regards of pics and buildup. Here are some pics of what I am using to disperse the liquid. I tested many size holes and numbers to get close to a bsfc number. I came up with these number and size of holes and the air control to "lean out" the mix. So far its working pretty well. I have to try to get better lighting to see more up into the chamber. The link to the youtube page has about 6-8 videos that show different testing.

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:31 pm**

mockup of wood inlet radius with tube.

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:32 pm**

tube holes

Tractorsport Flowbench Forum Archive

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