Serdi Micro 2000

[pablo]

Hey,
Anybody used the Serdi Micro 2000 (Hand Serdi) on Harley Davidson heads?? Any info on this would be appreciated

[gofaster]

I tried it, at first it was difficult to do intake seats without chatter. It will work ok once you get the hang of it.

First and foremost, you have to set it up so the head is mounted solidly, and you need to have the pilot aligned in the guide so it doesn't feel like it has loose or tight spots as you rotate the cutting head. To solidly mount the heads, I made an aluminum fixture plate that holds two Evo or TC heads. The fixture mounts the heads with the intakes on one side and the exhaust seats on the other, with four slots in it for pilot clearance, locating dowels for the two alignment holes in the top of the head, and bolt holes lined up with the rocker box bolt pattern. This helped reduce set-up time and made it easier to keep seat depths equal.

When cutting, it is important to make sure that your "Body English" doesn't influence cutting pressures or you will have concentricity issues. I always used Serdi carbide pilots.

Standard three angle cuts are the easiest to master. When you move on to advanced profiles with 4 or more angles, and radius bowl and combustion chamber blends, it gets tricky. In those cases, it's best to make your basic seat cuts with a simple single or three angle cutter, then finish with the advanced cutter. Some high performance cutters go fairly deep into the bowl. Those cuts should be preceeded by a pass with a 75 or 82 degree cutter. The idea is to do what you can to make all of your cuts light. Deep cuts will want to chatter, and once a seat has chatter marks, it is difficult to get it back under control, to the extent that you may have to dress it out with a stone and start over. This introduces the additional problem of excessive seat depth/stem protrusion. In other words, if it goes wrong it doesn't take much to reach the point where the seat will need to be replaced and you'll have to start over. Harley, Rowe, KPMI and some others offer shorter stem valves to help get around this, but the idea is to do it right so one of these band aids is not needed.

I used a Serdi Micro 2000 for a couple of years, and once I learned to work within it's limitations, I did a lot of nice work with it, BUT... as soon as I was able, I bought a new Serdi 1.0 AD. That's the way to go! Air float on the head, sphere, and table, plus a powerful spindle drive, and rock solid rigidity. I made a fixture plate for it, too. It bolts directly to the rollover fixture, holds 2 heads.

MY OPINION and nothing more: If you are buying the Micro to do your own heads and maybe some moonlight work for your buddies, it's ok. For a busy professional shop doing a lot of head work, it's too time consuming. If you have a shop and motorcycle heads are your primary business get a 1.0 AD, and if your shop does motorcycle and automotive heads get a 1.1. (or an equivalent machine from Sunnen, Newen, etc.)

[I]

[pablo]

Gofaster,
How 'bout the Goodson 3D cutting system??

[gofaster]

Pablo, I don't have experience with the Goodson unit. If it's the one I'm thinking about, it uses Serdi style cutters and so it should be able to do what you expect it to do. Someone posted up here about the Goodson system a year or two ago, and they were very happy with it. (Or was that post on Speed Talk? I suggest running a search on both forums for more info.) I think the person who posted was using a Bridgeport, or equivalent, and a rollover table. I would guess that it would also work on a large "Mill Drill" or heavy duty drill press with the right fixtures. Goodson sells a heavy duty head plate and a fixture to hold the plate firmly at any angle, and it is specifically for Harleys. I have one that I use for various machining operations, and it is very solid. It would probably work ok as a rollover table for the Goodson 3 d system. If you decide to go this route, be sure to level the machine table accurately. It will help immensley later when you are aligning pilots and guides. You'll be able to put a level on the pilot to align it with the spindle, saves time!

You can save money on systems like the Goodson unit, as opposed to buying a commercial guide and seat machine. The trick is to take the time, and possibly spend a little extra $$$ if necessary, to make sure that your system is rigid when you lock the head down prior to making a cut.

I hope you don't take what I'm saying as criticism of either system, and I hope you find something that meets your needs.

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with Goodson or Serdi other than being a paying customer. They both have great customer service people.

[pablo]

Gofaster,
I'm getting all the info from the Serdi, Goodson, Neway.
Have you tried the Neway cutters?? Ever use the 37 1/2 or 70 deg. cutters as options for the 30 and 60 deg std. My feeling is flow would be better with these angles.
I've seen the stuff from Goodson. I think it would work fine but light cuts will be a requirement.
Joe's cutter profiles look good. They will be what I will be using. Whether it's Serdi or Goodson.
Pablo

[gofaster]

I have used Neway cutters since the days when Harley started advocating their use in the Shovelhead Service manuals, back in the '70's. I still use them occasionally if a seat only needs dusted off a little bit. The only drawbacks are the effect of "Body English", and problems with the expandable pilots relating to concentricity. Finish the guides nice and straight, and use carbide pilots for the best results. Like the Micro 2000, pressure exerted to turn the tool has to be kept even. It's not difficult to turn out nice work with a little practice and patience.

As far as angles are concerned, I've seen that Neway is now offering a lot of new choices. Try them on the flow bench, and if it looks good on the bench, try it on the track. I use a lot of angles besides the common 30-45-60 combo. I get good results when I keep transitions at 15 degrees or less in either direction away from the seat.

As to Joe's cutters, I use them too, among others. It just depends on what my goals are for a particular head. Be aware that a couple of Joe's cutters make a very narrow seat that is great on a racing head, but too narrow for safe valve cooling in street use. Joe spent a lot of time developing the shapes he sells, and they perform just fine.

Whatever system you go with for seat work, you can always do nice work if you take the time to practice on junk or repairable heads, and learn the capabilities and limitations of the particular system. I started out on stones. With a good dresser you can make any angle stone you want, just takes time. I've also used Neway, Sunnen's power bench with diamond seat and guide cutters, and Serdi systems. There are things to like about all of them, and to this day I still have them all in my shop. I use the Serdi 1.0 for almot everything, though.



Edited By gofaster on 1188855243