old valve 3d seat cutters and valve refacers

[MrHijet]

Together with the flow bench I would like to buy some additionals tools for my work shop.

As I am often low on budget, I looked around for an old valve refacer.

I found some old Black & Decker Valve grinders like the following one:


I would "just" need to add some coolant/oiling mechanism to it.

What do you guys think about these old machines ? In general they are nearly unbreakable, but what caveeats do I have to fear ?

Another thing would be a valve seat grinder. There are some older machines like following:


but there are also new, but cheap 3d-seat-grinders like following:


I assume the new one is chinese made and I am not sure if they work so well and are durable for me in a private and non commercial environment.


Could you guys enlight me ? I am an absolutely newbee in the valve and valve seat grinding thing.

Cheers,

Daniel

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Before I committed to buying anything be sure you check that the chuck that holds the valves runs straight and true. A friend of mine bought one that was used and the darn thing faces the valves crooked as can be. Get a nice straight piece of rod, maybe 3/8" diameter or in your case 9mm, and put it in the chuck with a dial indicator up to it on the far end and turn the chuck on to see how much run out you get. That is the most critical part. Finding a new chuck for some of those old machines is next to impossible. Also before you buy it check for availability of the grinding stones that it uses. No sense having a machine you can't buy stones for.

John

[MrHijet]

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice. The hard thing on this is, that these machines are most times sold in the UK, which is just 600-800 km away from me, but as UK is an isle, I have to use a ferry, which makes the travel long and expensive. However you are right: It doesn't make sense to pay money for it and its useless because I can't get stones or the machine is not running straight.

Daniel

[49-1183904562]

[color=#000000]Danial;

Older Suix and B&D stone sets are not a bad place to start as they have allot of flexibility when it comes to custom seat angles but they are messy and take a bit of getting used to. I find then very violent in action, and when I am forced to use mine I slow the motor speed down with a variac.

I would stay away form the Chinese Neway knock off as the pilot system looks non standard.

I would suggest you start with a used stone system Suix or B&D as your investment in Pilots will move with you as you transition (Have extra cash to buy) to say Neway cutters or even the 3D setup from Goodson if you have a seat and guide machine or a vertical mill. Also I think Larry once said it is better to buy Carbide Pilots (3 time as much) than HSS as they flex less and I am seeing that more and more when doing seat work.

If you can find an older Neway or B&D 1960

[Moriniman]

Iv'e been looking at the system available from T&S



In my case I want to work on very small valves, down to 22mm and T&S have been quite helpful on advising that this is possible with the right insert.

[106-1194218389]

I have actually used the system like you are looking at at T&S. Does a good job. The ball socket assembly at point B lets the cutter float a little so the cutter unit follows the pilot and does not force it crooked. Like any cutter I have used you have to let the cutter dwell when you reach the depth you want or when the seat comes clean. What I have found, especially on the NewWay cutters when using them by hand, you have a tendency to apply more force at the start of the cut to get it started cutting and that can cause that part of the seat to be lower and not seal. Like anything else they can do a very good job but you need to get the "hang" of it. One of my guys would get in a real hurry and the seats he had done all had a dip on one side. I had to have a training moment with him. :;):

[MrHijet]

Thanks again for all responses.

Yesterday night I missed two watched auctions at ebay ( and ).

I am thinking about getting the Neway tools as you guys recommended. This also allows me to order them from the states, where I have a much larger market (and the shipping is not that expensive).

I tried to get my own set together at goodson.com, but I am struggeling with the sizes.

My engines are quite (erm ... really) small:

My valve diameters are from 20mm to 37mm. The valve stem diamters are 5mm to 7mm.

Could anyone help me out what sizes are these diameters in the imperial measurement ?

Thanks,

Daniel

[106-1194218389]

[MrHijet]

[MrHijet]

Guys,

could you be so kind and light me up a bit.

I searched around the web (and this forum) to find out if its better to get a set of 30/45/60 degree or a 31/46/61 degree cutter set from Neway.

If I understand it right, the plus one degree is used, because of the variances when you hand cut a seat. What would you guys recommend for me as a non-professional user ?

Cheers,

Daniel

[106-1194218389]

[MrHijet]

Thanks John,

Do you have any idea why do they offer them in two flavors ?

Cheers,

Daniel

[106-1194218389]

Some people like to run what they call an interference angle, the valve being one degree different than the valve. This causes the valve to wedge a little tighter to supposedly seal better. I personally do not like this as I have seen it be hard on the seats and valves as they pound together. Causes the seat to kind of round on the edges and the face of the valves to get indentations. This can caus air flow problems in a critical area. Now you can play with angles for better air flow in some areas and applications, but the valves and seats should be the same.

John

[MrHijet]

Thanks John,

Now I know what I have to buy

Daniel

[MrHijet]

Back to the neway cutter sets.

I had luck to buy a used set on ebay. So I have several pilots and some cutting heads now.

I have following heads:
612 (35mm 15x46) (Range 18-38 / 24-40)
621 (38mm 15x46) (Range 18-44 / 22-45)
204 (31,6mm 15x46) (Range 16-36 / 18-36)
206 (31,6mm 75) (Range 24-38)
209 (35mm 15x46) (Range 18-38 / 24-40)

Since I need new carbide blades and some additional pilots, I would make an order. What additionals heads (degrees) should I buy to make it a complete set ? At the moment I am missing 30 and 60 degree, but I am unsure if I really need them.

I have 2 and 4 valve small cylinder heads (20mm to 38mm Valves)

Could anyone give me some hints or advice ?

Thanks,

Daniel