Full wet test induction project

[blaktopr]

[color=#000000]Thanks Rick. It's funny that I have all these things you speak of and more because of others, in my head and get overwhelmed at the fact if I would ever reach any conclusion that may help in the real world. I unserstand what you mean about airspeed slowing, but also have a view of the fluid has mass and occupies space in the runner. now with less volume the air speeds up?.. I guess thats another test with the pitot tube. Test, Test, Test...........It seems I test more of the application of using wet flow rather than how it applys to the head!

[quote]Don

[106-1194218389]

I just had a thought. I worked in a SAAB Dealership for a while. They all had electronic fuel injectors. To clean them we had just taken a electrical plug for the injector from an old harness and hooked it to a 12v convertor. That way we could hold the injector open and just spray the injector cleaner through them while they were open. Now take a look at Tom's (200cfm) pictures of the Ferrari F1 engine's injection. Anybody seening my drift? Hook an injector in front of the port you are flowing with your flow liquid plumbed to it under pressure. Your injector is hooked up to a power source so you can open it and there you go, a fine mist soure for your wet flow bench.

John

[200cfm]

That's a good idea. A few years back I made up a water/alcohol injection gismo. Used an old injector cold start from an Audi. Plumbed it with a cheap ebay Carter electric tank fuel pump. Dropped the pump into a small container. Mixed up some water/alcohol 50/50. 12 vdc battery source, on/off switch. The cold start gave a super fine atomized mist. Even got around to timing the volume output to calculate the cc rate per min. Then played around with a Jag XJ12 injector. Nice mist again an a lot more volume. That Jag injector pumped some flow at 100% duty cycle. Then I moved on to some other time consuming project. Might be the ticket.

[blaktopr]

How about instead of an electric pump, you pressurize your liquid canister from your compressor. You can regulate the pressurefrom 0 to 100 psi. What do you guys think. And since you mention water/alchohol injection, what is the SG of windshield washer fluid. Don't they use that in those systems? Would any injector work or just these "cold start" ones you speak of. Something that I may find at ebay or local parts store. Chris

[86rocco1]

Unlike most EFI injectors, the cold start injectors are not designed to operate on a high frequency, variable duty cycle rather, in their normal mode of operation, they open fully (100% duty cycle) when the engine first starts for anywhere from 2-10 seconds depending on coolant temperature. You can think of them sort of like a normal solenoid valve with an attached spray nozzle.

BTW, they are a standard feature on any car with a Bosch CIS type injection, that system was used on countless European cars in the 70's and 80's everything from Ferraris to VWs

[106-1194218389]

btw Chris,
Have you checked in on your wetflow thread at Speed Talk? Darin Morgan had a very good answer there that needs to be read. Also he gave some links to some of his videos and has some very good things to know about wet flowing.

John

[blaktopr]

Im glad he did, answered most of my questions. I was replacing my boiler this weekend and found something to try other than my tubes and the injector idea. The jet nozzle from the oil burner. It has a tube that it threads into that I can adapt onto a tube inlet. I feel with this and the tubes that I can even stick into an intake runner, I can make some gains. Viewing in person, believe it or not, I can see lots of the same patterns as his videos. Also, If you look at the vids of the higher lifts, look at the 11:00 to 11:30 part of the intake valve. See those string like streams? I mixed very small amounts of fluorecent paint into my water, ran the test, took off the head, and saw streams like that in parts of the chamber and in the runner behind the valve looking with the black light. Now what does it mean? I will have to find out. But it looks like these tests can show me lots of things as long as I am looking.

[blaktopr]

Thank you all for your interest and help through my learning process.

[49-1183904562]

[color=#000000]Chris,

Did you notice that all the turbulence is moving the Cool intake mixture across the pug and swirling the exhaust valve??? By Design?? There is a ton of info in those videos. And I really thought Daren

[blaktopr]

Rick, I took a look for a few minutes and that swirl even happens on flat , concave chamber around the area of the exhaust valve/plug. This phenomenom I feel is the same as what is happening in an open bed of a pickup truck. There are many times I will have an empty plastic bag back there or something else kinda light. Driving at highway speeds only the item just rolls around in circles taking forever to fly away. The circular motion comes up from the tailgate to the cab and up the cab then to start again. I'm not really sure of the physics of it, but it might go something like this, plus I saw something on mythbusters testing the effects of milage and taneau covers, etc.

Airspeed is highest over the cab (over the plug protrusion), then slows once passed the cab over the bed getting some trapped by the tailgate (behind the plug, edge of exhaust at the margin). The increased speed of the air at that point before the plug drops out fuel, and dispeses it behind it. Pressure is now higher in the bed and the air wants to go to the low traveling to the cab and up the back of it (directly behind the plug, bring the fuel with it), just like the plastic bag.). The air re-enters the fast air and starts the process all over again, but the bag (fuel) is too heavy and too large a quantity to be entirely incorporated into the air, so it just drops back out again repeating the process. Thats my take on it.
If you can put a pitot tube in those areas, you may find the same results as if you were to probe at the back side of a restriction in a port. Look at what is done to also get fuel that dropped out back into the airstream. It's late and my mind is a little jumbled. I hope you got the gist of it. It's something we mess with in the port and see day to day in our life. I just don't know if it is a benefit to cooling the plug or a negative having a concentration of fuel not completely mixed, producing an uneven burn across the piston face. Chris.

[blaktopr]

I want to add something I been thinking about during my testing. I read David Vizards article on wet flow mistakes. He mentiones when flowing with an intake on, the need to generate some depression in an opposing cylinder. Thats all well and good but when I tested the whole system, with the carb producing the fluid, I found even with only one barrel open, the one over the runner, that it would take WAY more than 28" to get a good test. Even when that one barrel is being used, fluid makes its way to all 7 other runners. It makes a mess too once you shut down the bench. Even with the runners blocked, the fluid goes there. I know I only tested at 20" but I feel that you would need double that to keep fluid from collecting at the other runners. There still is info to gather. But IMO, unless you can pull 50 to 150" of depression, his point seems to hold little water. Pardon the pun.

Chris.